Thread: I was only kidding!

OBAMA: I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I’ve been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes. We are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are middle-income individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to $1,000 worth of relief.

Cut to the real world.......

"Using the newly-released 2002 input-output accounts we present new estimates of the distributional impact of a typical cap-and-trade system by income, age, U.S. region and family type. In total, households would face an annual burden of roughly $144.8 billion per year with costs disproportionately borne by low-income households, those under age 25 and over 75 years, those in Southern states, and single parents with dependent children."

The Tax Foundation - Who Pays for Climate Policy? New Estimates of the Household Burden and Economic Impact of a U.S. Cap-and-Trade System
The Tax Foundation - Household Cap-and-Trade Burden Calculator

And the CBO who has a reputation for accuracy and real numbers puts the figure at $175.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/103xx/doc...TradeCosts.pdf

I never thought the conservatives would be in favor of socialism. Let the people who use energy the most pay for the costs associated with that energy. This will encourage people to make rational choices... Isn't that the free market line?

Originally Posted by nation-x

Cap and Trade is not a tax... saying so is dishonest

Really? It's a tax on energy consumption. The admin may want to call it "energy revenues" but that is spin speak for "energy tax".
You say potatoe.....I say potato.

Originally Posted by NobleSavage

And the CBO who has a reputation for accuracy and real numbers puts the figure at $175.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/103xx/doc...TradeCosts.pdf

I never thought the conservatives would be in favor of socialism. Let the people who use energy the most pay for the costs associated with that energy. This will encourage people to make rational choices... Isn't that the free market line?

Yep....and

"Note also that the CBO analysis is an average for the country as a whole. It doesn't take into account the fact that certain regions and populations will be more severely hit than others -- manufacturing states more than service states; coal producing states more than states that rely on hydro or natural gas."

I also want to toss in implications from the CBO:

"The resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap."

As the House vote on the American Clean Energy and Security Act approached this week, prominent media conservatives once again took to the airwaves and displayed their true colors. Criticism of the bill from the right -- especially its cap-and-trade provisions -- has not been the product of principle, but of misinformation and, at times, willful denial.

On Friday, radio host Rush Limbaugh once again flagrantly denied that global warming exists and continued to advance the shockingly erroneous, comically false argument that under the legislation, "we could be taxed because of the carbon dioxide we exhale." Thanks, Professor Limbaugh, for another science lesson!

"This bill is about raising taxes and taking away people's freedom," Limbaugh continued, before comparing it to a "Soviet-style five-year plan" that is "all based on hoaxes," a crooked scheme worthy of Bernie Madoff.

The fearmongering continued as Fox News' Glenn Beck agreed with Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) when she argued of the bill, "You're either for freedom or you're not."

Indeed, portraying the legislation as a massive financial penalty for ordinary Americans is a major line of attack for media conservatives. Thursday's Fox & Friends claimed that the average family would have to pay an extra $3,100 a year in energy costs if it passed. But that number is based on a distortion of a 2007 MIT study -- a distortion that has since been discredited by one of the study's authors. Fox's Sean Hannity also pushed a similar myth, claiming that the bill would cost families $2,000 a year.

Media Matters: Busting a cap and trade in their ... spin | Media Matters for America

Lies and distortion... business as usual, I guess.

Originally Posted by Actorguy

Yep....and

"Note also that the CBO analysis is an average for the country as a whole. It doesn't take into account the fact that certain regions and populations will be more severely hit than others -- manufacturing states more than service states; coal producing states more than states that rely on hydro or natural gas."

Isn't the right wing line that business that don't pay taxes.. they just pass them down the line to the consumer? So people will choose products more wisely. Why should one state have to subsidize another state? If the Federal government decides to bail out California you will be screaming "SOCALISM".

I also want to toss in implications from the CBO:
"The resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap."

DUH, and it doesn't take into account the huge possible upside of fostering the alt energy economy.

The exact responses I suspected. "Bullshit". "Right-wing". "Conservative".

"DUH, and it doesn't take into account the huge possible upside of fostering the alt energy economy."

Hey. I was just quoting the "CBO who has a reputation for accuracy and real numbers". DUH, I am sure the alt energy sector will more than make up for the losses.

Originally Posted by nation-x

So when the price of oil goes up that is a tax? Your reasoning is bullshit.

tax
Definition
A fee charged ("levied") by a government on a product, income, or activity.

When Oil goes up it is not a tax because nothing of it is going to the government, well if they wouldn't tax it anyway

I think I figured it out. ActorGuy is on the payroll of one of these astroturf firms in DC. He gets paid to post links to BS.

Originally Posted by NobleSavage

I think I figured it out. ActorGuy is on the payroll of one of these astroturf firms in DC. He gets paid to post links to BS.

LOL